In Gun News This Week… Bump Stocks. Let’s Talk.

Of course, a lot of the gun news this week centers around bump stocks. In the light of the country’s worst mass shooting by a single perpetrator, emotions are running high so let’s have a conversation about them right here. Here are a few of the many stories found on the subject this week. Please read them and then feel free to add your own thoughts in the comments.

Remember that all comments are moderated and will be disallowed if they do not follow the guidelines found here.


15 Responses to In Gun News This Week… Bump Stocks. Let’s Talk.

  1. You are indeed brave Mr. Howes! I feel almost compelled to say something though I may be disallowed or heavily edited.

    I reviewed the articles and I found the last article the most thought provoking, however; I am not sure how I feel about a bump fire ban. After all the device did not go out and perpetrate this senseless act, but rather a deeply disturbed person carried out the acts. Jesus stated in Mark 7:21-23, “For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. All these evils come from within, and these are what defile a man.” So it was the man who made the decision to carry out this act, and the device was simply something he used to carry it out. In someways it’s not unlike an arsonist using a lighter and gasoline to set a fire. In the same way fire can be an incredibly useful tool, yet misused it is highly destructive and devastating. Despite this fact no one is screaming for bic lighters, gasoline, or matches to be banned.

    On the flip side of that token, if you will, I am not sure if banning devices such as the bump stock, binary triggers, or trigger cranks infringe upon my right to keep and bear arms, since these items effectively allow the firearms they are installed on to function in a way outside the firearm’s original design. I do, however; fear that if such legislation were passed it would set a precedent for further legislation that would lead to things that do in fact infringe upon those rights. As a person who grew up using firearms for sport, subsistence, protection, and in employment, I was taught no matter if it’s an air gun or a .50 caliber when we deal with firearms it’s incredibly serious business. It was also instilled in me to be a good ambassador for firearms owners as a whole by being respectful of those who felt differently from me on this issue. It is most certainly those people’s right and prerogative to feel that way. I think many times enough credit is not given to the responsible, lawful, productive, gun owners. Just think for a minute, of the how many million firearms and how many billion rounds of ammunition statistically if the firearms and ammunition were the problem there would be many more events like what happened in Las Vegas.

    I believe we would be much better served by taking a long hard look at who we are and where we have come from as a whole or nation if you will. On July 4th, 1776 We made a unanimous declaration in which We stated, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” Meaning these things are so blatantly obvious they cannot be ignored, they are given to all people by their Creator, they cannot be denied or taken away, and those rights are a right to life, liberty, and the Pursuit (emphasis on pursuit) of happiness. This was more than a passing nod to these notions it was the cornerstone and ethos of our burgeoning nation.

    Fast forward to today, things like abortion and human trafficking have become more and more the norm even in our own country. Those in power seem farther and farther away from our founding ideas than ever before. They seem to put no one in priority but themselves, yet sworn to uphold institutions that were originally founded and espoused to the ideals listed in our Declaration and Constitution. I believe our greatest problem and source of most evil that is perpetrated in our country is the lack of personal responsibility and respect for human life. I find it deplorable that anyone would use those injured or killed in Las Vegas as a soapbox to push an agenda whether on the “left” or “right”.

    The thing that give me great hope, however; is the actions of not only the authorities, but the ordinary people. People not trained to deal with such a situation who put others above themselves and went to great lengths to help others around them. This gives me great optimism. Those selfless acts are time and time again what defines us as Americans. In times of incredibly horrible circumstances we seem to rally together and give all we can to help our fellow man. This is what truly makes us “One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all”. I believe the nation has weathered worse storms, and I believe our best days are still ahead. I don’t know what is the correct course of action on this issue, but I hope both sides can come to some sort of understanding where both sides feel like they win. At the end of the day we’re all Americans and it is my hope that the #VegasStrong becomes #AmericaStrong and through this we all have a country we can all be proud of.

    • Great article. I agree with most of it except at the very end, ” I hope both sides can come to some sort of understanding where both sides feel like they win.” I do not believe that both sides can feel like they win. One side wants their God given rights un-infringed. The other side wants to eliminate that right as they feel they have replaced God.

      Seeking for the government to examine anything relating to regulating firearms and/or their accessories opens the door to dangerous and extreme laws and regulations that do not support American’s Second Amendment rights.

      Seeking a regulatory agency such as the BATFE to regulate anything firearms related is an horrific mistake. An anti-Second Amendment President could then use the BATFE or any other agency to regulate our rights out of existence. Sadly, supposed pro-Second Amendment groups such as the NRA are supporting such notions.

      I ask, by what standard does the NRA, or anyone else supporting government regulation, use to determine which gun control measure to support? The NRA in the past has supported un-Constitutional, evil, gun control measures such as the National Firearms Act of 1934, The Federal Firearms Act of 1938, and the Gun Control Act of 1968. The NRA has never repented for supporting these egregious laws. Any standard other than the Constitutional standard of “shall not be infringed” are the same standards by which anti-Second Amendment proponents adhere to. Clearly the NRA has abandoned the Constitutional idea that our God given right to own arms “shall not be infringed”. The NRA has joined in the anti-gun groups in creating a false and un-Constitutional standard of regulating a right; and, once a right has been regulated it ceases to be a right. Freedom and liberty have been lessened, which means that we are not a totally free people with the liberty to live, to pursue happiness, as we see fit.

      Anyone support government laws and regulations pertaining to firearms is supporting ending “The People’s” ability to defend themselves against tyranny. Their barrage against “The People’s” rights must cease and be repented of. True proponents of the Second Amendment must stop compromising on gun legislation and take a stand for American’s God given rights. We need to take a stand as a fully pro-Second Amendment citizens and demand repeals of all guns laws and regulations as they are all un-Constitutional and infringe “The People’s” God given rights of owning arms. “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

      As I recently posted on a GCA forum: I am of the school of “my God given right ‘shall not be infringed’”. There should be no law prohibiting any weapon- firearms, firearms accessories, knives, even military grade weaponry. “Arms in the hands of citizens (may) be used at individual discretion…in private self defense…” John Adams, A defense of the Constitutions of the Government of the USA, 471 (1788).
      All of those things are dangerous in the hands of an evil, disturbed, individual. All of those things are even more dangerous to “The People” in the hands of an evil government; which is part of the reason our Founding Fathers believed in the right of the people to defend themselves against a tyrannical government. Today, we have no ability like our Founders to defend ourselves against tyranny. We are even dependent upon the government alone to protect us in case of invasion by a modern military campaign. Freedom and Liberty are at stake with every regulation and law. “Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.” – Patrick Henry

      Do I own or want a bump stock? Not today, maybe someday. Do I think that I have any right to prohibit another individual from having something they desire? No! There are lot of people that I think should not even own a firearm, but I would never move to deprive them of such a right. Any argument in favor of regulating firearms and/ or their accessories is at odds with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights which are more fully expressed rights guaranteed by “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” The Second Amendment is a God given right that protects “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” from both enemies foreign and domestic. ” No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”- Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution, 1776

      There are a lot of folks that are going to find all of that offensive, but truth offends. The greatest threat to the American way of life is when the people react wrongly to evil individuals who have abused and squandered their rights. Americans become no better than the monsters they claim to take a stand against when the people surrender their rights for supposed security. When “The People” abuse and squander their rights they have, themselves, created an evil monster. Let us not punish ourselves and generations to come by willfully surrendering our rights. George Washington said, “A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.”

    • So Dana. Who is this person? What qualifications does he have to make such an “expert” opinion? Doesn’t it seem odd that of all the people who have investigated this incident he is the only one to claim this? Where is the peer review or proof other than his own whiteboards?

  2. While the analysis is interesting I believe it raises more questions than it answers. I appreciate a differing opinion, but there is quite a bit I’m sure those of us who were not there do not nor will not ever know. I also doubt those investigating will ever disclose all they know while the investigation is still very much active. That’s pretty standard procedure in any investigation.

    I believe one of the many questions this man’s analysis raises is how does his research account for the differing rates of fire stemming from the devices the shooter used, the fact that differing distances from the sounds of rounds either striking or being fired would change his calculations, and the fact that rounds were coming in to an area that was easily 100 yds square or better. His numbers work given the round went from specific point A to point B and was recorded from a specific distance from point B. Which is as he stated simple physics. I’ll give an example, when I was in marching band in my high school and college years, I had to watch the snare drummer even when he was across the width of the football field from me. This was only a distance of some 53.5yds or 160ft, but there was a noticeable delay from the time his drum was struck and when I heard the report and another delay from when I heard the echo off of different objects around the field. That delay was different to each member that’s why we were taught to Watch the drummer at that distance. Just food for thought.

    I believe the best thing for everyone to do on all sides is allow cooler heads to prevail. The Creator gave us all 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. Those hurt and killed and their families deserve our mercy, help, thoughts, prayers and anything else we can do to help. Especially all of us in the “gun community” we owe it to all to be the best we can be and not bicker and squabble.

    On topic though, I have always been open to legitimate logical debate, but sometimes I think both sides are so hard nosed we get too animus with one another. I still think we can rise above; I still think we can be better.

    America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry S. Truman

    America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. -Abraham Lincoln

  3. I’m all for a good debate, but things here are getting off track fast. So, ill throw in my opinion. As for limiting access to bump stocks I personally have to say it doesn’t bother me, I have never and will never own one since the bulk of my collection is turn bolt. I also don’t feel that it denies me my second amendment rights. I do however feel that its a naive notion and in the end somewhat pointless, and draws resources away from more necessary and socially relevant legislative concerns. I think at this point common sense dictates that the assigned titles “gunman” and “law abiding citizen” are not interchangeable and by no stretch of even the most colorful imagination ever will be. So with that in mind I would point out that an individual who is committing such acts is already engaged in illegal activities, why would any reasonable person assume that they will adhere to laws regarding weapons modifications. Only thing restrictions of these items will ultimately do is feed anti gun activists egos and slightly damage the firearms industry for a short period.

  4. Any restriction and infringement leads to more restriction and infringement. The left has NEVER compromised with respect to gun laws; they have only been defeated. If this is given to them, more will follow. It is time, again, to state in the most forceful terms, “No more infringements on our liberty!”

  5. All of the opinions here matter naught. The Fed will do what the Fed will do. Common sense no longer prevails in our country, as it once did many years ago. The ultra-liberal media drives our populace into a frenzy when things like Vegas occur, the spineless politicians quake in their boots, and certain demographic segments (non-gunners) see openings for advancing their agendas and run with it. Those demographic segments are not afraid to be out in the street busting heads, or getting arrested, as we have all seen within the last couple years. The feckless politicians, on both sides of the aisle, cave to the minority demands, and we, the peaceful, law abiding Americans bend over and take it. It sickens me. I have lived through several wars, seen various violent protests, and watched this once-great country start its slide toward the political/social climate we find ourselves in now. The march to ban firearms, and those who are involved with them, is not new. It will not go away, and may even succeed at one point. this latest focus, the so-called bump stocks, is another point of focus for the gun-banners. Most of them had never heard of such a thing prior to Vegas. For days after the shootings, folks were approaching me and asking what a bump stock was. Many were calling them bump stops, including many in the media. This is a good indicator of where many folks get their information, flawed as it may be, and they run with it as fact. It is a sad, sad situation. The media also churns these folks into a frenzy, along with some folks in our community, who then panic and run out to purchase any volume of whatever is the current demonized product, causing shortages and huge price increases of said product. Right now it is the bump stock, and possibly suppressors. Goodbye HPA. I hope not, but I would not bet against it. I looked on Gunbroker.com and saw these bump stocks listed for 2-4 times their MSRP. This happened during the Clinton assault weapons ban, too. Items worth $20.00 prior to the ban were selling at $150.00 during the height of that particular ban. I was at a local, small gun show last weekend, and more than one vendor, private and licensed, had bump stocks of various manufacture for sale at $500.00 and up. I am glad I got mine a few years back, and I will hold onto them. One acquaintance at that show and I were talking about the situation and I mentioned I had several of the stocks. Without batting an eye he offered me three times what I paid for one of the less expensive ones I have. I politely declined, but I must say I was mighty tempted. I elect not to be a part of the problem. More than enough said.

  6. OK — just my humble opinion on bump stocks; but before I put it out there, just so you know:
    – I am a gunsmith (and occasional contributor to this newsletter)
    – I am an FFL holder
    – I believe in the 2nd Amendment and think I understand the original intent of it (which has NOTHING to do with hunting, “sporting purposes” etc. and EVERYTHING to do with defense of our rights and freedom).

    That being said, we all know that ownership of fully-automatic firearms has been restricted by law for some time (not prohibited — at least not under Federal Law — but severely restricted). Some of the reasons for those restrictions are legitimate. For one thing, a full-auto weapon in untrained hands is downright dangerous to both the shooter and anyone in the vicinity. Even the military doesn’t turn the average soldier loose with one without training. Other reasons for restricting full-auto guns are purely political and need to be addressed separately; but we have accepted those restrictions for some time, and nobody at present is challenging them.

    A bump-fire device is nothing more than a blatant attempt to get around those restrictions — to comply with the letter of the law while violating its intent. Isn’t that the same thing liberals have been trying to do to us all along as far as the Second Amendment itself is concerned? Let’s not play that game.

    Here’s what I think would be a reasonable solution:
    – No more bump-fire devices to be manufactured or sold.
    – Existing bump-fire devices are “grandfathered” and legal to own; HOWEVER, as soon as you put one on a gun, the result becomes subject to the same rules (registration, tax, paperwork, etc.) as a full-auto firearm. This is no different that the rule currently applied to those vintage shoulder-stocks for the old broomhandle Mauser — perfectly OK for a collector to own, but if you put it together with the gun it becomes subject to Class III rules as a short-barreled rifle (SBR).

    Now, I DON’T think the rules described above should be arbitrarily decreed by the bureaucracy (ATF or whatever). I think we’ve already got a runaway bureaucracy with altogether too much rule-making power. But if Congress wants to pass a law that says what I’ve described above, I think this would a wonderful opportunity to include language that REMOVES suppressors from Class III restrictions. For that matter, let’s remove SBRs from those restrictions as well. Of course, SBRs would still be subject to the same purchase requirements (4473, NICS check) as any other firearm, and I wouldn’t object to making suppressors subject to the same.

    So… that’s my opinion, and I think it’s reasonable. Unfortunately, it’s pretty hard to find reasonable people these days — especially in Congress.

  7. BUMP FIRE STOCK NOT NEEDED

    You Did Know That You Can Bump Fire Your Rifle Without A Bump Stock, Right?
    Hook your thumb in a belt loop or a pocket and fire away.
    https://freedomoutpost.com/know-can-bump-fire-rifle-without-bump-stock-right

    From the shoulder.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2YLgLj8KVY

    I learned how to do this at age 14 (1955) with a Remington Model 550, .22 caliber semi-automatic. .22 rounds cost forty-cents for a box of fifty back then.

    Outlawing the Bump Fire Stock will do nothing but make the politicians look like they did something wonderful and make the ignorant citizen believe that they care about them instead of assuming more power.
    IT IS A FARCE! ! !

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